For the bloviating piehole who made a comment about the American pilot who required 31L, I was the PIC and I declared an emergency three times because there was one. ATC should have called the Airforce on him. Editorial Disclosure: The editorial content on this page is not provided by any entity mentioned herein. It should have gone 1NR, please exit the Bravo. NASTY ARGUMENT between Cessna Pilot and Vegas ATC! She kept phoning her father, a MD in LA and complaining about her mistreatment and threatening everybody with lawsuits. Your feedback is important in helping us keep our community safe. . It appears that this pilot is a child of the "Magenta Line", it looks like he flies with automation on a lot. This guy is a class-one "all about me" narcissist who makes GA pilots look bad. Second, yes, people make mistakes, and when someone tells you "Hey you made a mistake here's Karen: > ATC should have called the Airforce on him. For starters, she let him wander into bravo and didn't kick him out until he was well inside. I didnt realize I had violated class B airspace, can I get vectors out? then I would bet my life that none of us would have ever even heard this story. This guys ego trip does not trump the lives of the flying public and those on the ground who live under the pattern. This letter acknowledges receipt of your FOIA request dated May 27, 2020, regarding any accident, investigation, pilot deviation reports, legal enforcement actions, or FSDO records, regarding a possible pivot deviation on June 20, 2020 where N731NR may have entered Bravo airspace without clearance. The controller states that the pilot needs clearance to be in Bravo and to have requested clearance. I know what he did was wrong but I understand his frustration. It causes paperwork (at the very least) on both sides and is also distracting from other important duties. Only then did he comply with instructions. I just looked over the link you posted. If you are aware that you have made a mistake, and have filled out the necessary reports, then it will be less likely that you will face serious consequences. So to appease the pilot and keep him from rattling off more sob story on frequency, he just smiles and waves. Were all here to check each other and keep our airspace safe. He busted that test and they pulled his ticket. The Federal Aviation Administration publishes quarterly a compilation of enforcement actions against regulated aviation entities that are closed with either a civil penalty or issuance of a certificate suspension or revocation. He let his situational awareness slip, not a good thing. This guy should be banned from flying period! None of my students have gotten one either. Pull that @$$holes license and give him a huge fine. Sometimes ATC attitude causes the problems. How hard would it be to just clear him through? However he failed to descend below the inner ring, that ring starts at 4500 ft MSL and goes up to 10000 ft MSL. He shouldnt be flying anywhere near Class B airspace if he doesnt understand the regulations. Cut off a commercial airline at the beginning of his short final resulting in a missed approach and go round for him. Anyone flying under VFR (Visual . Although VASAviation transcribed it as "you're being that," it sounded to me more like this pilot started to retort with, "YOU'RE being an ass--", then caught himself and said, "That is not appropriate language.". As such, he is supposed to go around the airspace. Humans make mistakes sometimes its not a reason to bully somebody. Tower: "N12345, I'll call your right turn north east. Hundreds could have died. This is serious,you can't be that blatantly disobedient. The pilot never requested clearance into the class BRAVO airspace. he Karen Mosley apparetly is clueless about aviation. Reminds me of center frequencies ignoring calls from VFR aircraft. What almost everyone here is saying is correct (save for the C who ragged on GA pilots - the kind that most ATPS once were in order to get to where they are today- B!). Anyway, a video has just been uploaded of an interaction between an air traffic controller and a pilot over the skies of Las Vegas on June 20, 2020. He was the one that escalated the situation to where the ATC got flustered/put off by his response. But if it was just a misjudgment, and we all make those from time to time, the appropriate response would be to simply apologize to the Controller, then get out. Outside of banner ads published through the Boarding Area network, this compensation does not impact how and where products appear on this site. ATC: "N1NR, possible pilot deviation, advise to contact Las Vegas approach. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. "N731NR (still whining): "Then clear me through. But N1NR wants clearance nonetheless and is refusing to leave. When an aircraft is approaching your airspace and the destination is on the opposite side, it's obvious that they're going to need to descend at some point. OR he's actually the A that pilot b called him and in that case, break out the cheese grater and throw the AH over your knee. My local airport is RDU. - attitude, attitude, attitude, and I'm not talking about the aircraft. This letter acknowledges receipt of your FOIA request dated May 27, 2020, regarding any accident, investigation, pilot deviation reports, legal enforcement actions, or FSDO records, regarding a possible pivot deviation on June 20, 2020 where N731NR may have entered Bravo airspace without clearance. Not only is it against our good nature, but its more work to deviate a pilot (tell on them in lay terms) than to overlook trivial pilot errors after calling them out, as long as it doesnt pose an imminent danger. I don't care where people get frustrated. Shesa credit to the profession. She kept phoning her father, a MD in LA and complaining about her mistreatment and threatening everybody with lawsuits. Sometimes, when major airports are busy, they ban transitions through their airspace, in which case you have to either: - route around, under, or above the relevant airspace People get frustrated in the air just like they do in cars and dont get their license suspended. He exercised his PIC. Air traffic controllers are susceptible to power trips and moods and biases, just like everyone else. Open the communication! I received a disc from the FAA containing the Air Traffic Organization response and I loaded everything from that disc into this Google Drive folder. An official website of the United States government Here's how you know. The F-15 and F-16 have to go over twice that. Best Flight Tracker: Live Tracking Maps, Flight Status, and Airport Delays for airline flights, private/GA flights, and airports. Without that you cannot enter class B airspace. Always good to receive a reminder that your pilot may be a nut case and we can just hope we never find out if s/he is or not. I live in Las Vegas. Wrong. Is there any way you can vector me through? Amelia McGillManagement & Program Analyst (FOIA Coordinator)FAA-Office of Foundational BusinessCorrespondence Services Branch, AFB-130424-405-7221. All the information we have at this point shows that he blamed ATC for . Please refer to the above referenced number on all future correspondence regarding this request. 1NR, exit the Bravo immediately.Pilot: Ive been talking to you the whole time. I am sure you are a "perfect angel". Isnt the airspace over international airports congested (and dangerous) enough without these general aviation Cesena clowns and the Harrison Fords of the world putting the rest of us at risk? Humans make mistakes sometimes its not a reason to bully somebody. Certainly, the other person on frequency broke the rules by transmitting directly to the pilot, but that was defensible and measured: the pilot had severely degraded situational awareness that was imperiling the safe operation of his aircraft. Bravo airspace, like Ben said, is the airspace around major airports in the country. * See for example https://youtu.be/mUSUXnr4dSo, Subject: HQ: Request 2020-007191 under the Freedom of Information Act, 5 U.S.C. I wish there was a portal where we could interject and tell the FAA to shove one up this guy's six. Should you wish to inquire as to the status of your request, please contact the assigned FOIA Coordinator. Typically, as tower, I don't care about the details, I've got stuff to do. The few concerns about behavior affected by incipient tumor or hypoxia bring back memories. Keep up the anti-mask bs. People get frustrated in the air just like they do in cars and dont get their license suspended. Maybe, just maybe this controller was playing her Bravo authority a little too far? These guys & women keep 10-20 balls in the air constantly..you think you can do better?? I'm a commercial pilot and CFII. As well as this, any pilot in command that deviates from an ATC clearance in an emergency, or in response to a traffic alert and collision avoidance system resolution advisory should notify the ATC of the deviation as soon as possible. Pull that @$$holes license and give him a huge fine. If youre having medical issues or youre feeling unwell youre not supposed to be in command of an aircaft. Attached you will find the Acknowledgment Letter in response to your Freedom of Information Act request. Blatantly ignoring ATC is criminally gross negligence. If the worst were to happen, people could lose their lives due to pilot deviation, which is not something that anyone wants to have on their conscience. You'd be surprised how many Pilots act like they are the only plane an ATC is working even tho she is nonstop talking sequencing Arrivals to one of the top 5 busiest airports in the USA!!! He flew the plane and student back, Mom advised student (he wanted to finish he's flight) he was done until she discussed it with IP and Dad as owner and Chief Pilot. I remember many times that pilots would argue with me about instructions. Gotta love how times have changed Dad was a FBO, Commercial, Instructor, Multi, Aerobatic, crop duster and Instrument. The F-15 and F-16 have to go over twice that. The few concerns about behavior affected by incipient tumor or hypoxia bring back memories. If you do receive a brasher warning, you should know that you do not have to call the provided telephone straight away, and you are allowed to take some time to think about the situation that has occurred. Even the simplest of deviations can make the difference between life and death, which is why it is so important to stick to the rules. The aircraft, N731NR, is registered to "Wife Approved LLC." In aviation, Bravo airspace or Class B space is a zone around some of the busiest airports that no plane or helicopter is allowed to enter without permission. Official websites use .govA .gov website belongs to an official government organization in the United States. When you have 2 F-16s or 2 F-15s escorting you that should bring sense into your head faster than having the nerve to argue. This pilot should have been arrested and given a breathalyzer upon landing. A brasher warning is basically when you are given notice that you have made a mistake when you were piloting a plane. When other pilots are straight up calling you an asshole on frequency, and nobody but you is concerned by it, YOU fucked up. Time that controller needed for other pilots who HAD to be in the Class B. I can't believe anyone would defend his behavior Is it that hard to skirt around or over it? There are reasons for the rules. I'm flying.". Interceptions are dangerous and that jet blast and thrust from either twin thrust (F-15) or single thrust (F-16) could put the Cessna into a dangerous condition. Me - yes sir, IP just sent student name on his long cross country and controlled airspace flight. Flying his bird may get a lot less pleasant REAL fast. I wonder if they're aware of how much exposure this has in the pilot community. I noticed the same aircraft had an incident last year with a gear-up landing in St. Louis. The begged question is false. I'm very impressed that he could do all that. (Identification) POSSIBLE PILOT DEVIATION ADVISE YOU CONTACT (facility) AT (telephone number). It's hard to begin to defend such irrational and reckless behavior. 1NR, exit the Bravo immediately"N731NR (whining): "I've been talking to you the whole time. Uncharacteristic behavior is often one of the first indicators of an underlying problem. It seems like the pilot was intent on entering Bravo with or without permission. Calling the cops on "someone suspicious" has become a way to say "There's a minority person and I don't like something about them so I called the cops on them.". Your participation in helping us identify both our strong and weak points will help us improve our service(s) to all our stakeholders. Either way, whether medical or psychological, the solution is the same - he shouldnt have a license. There is a letter stating the request was denied because of an ongoing investigation. I live under the approach and departure path to MIA, so I constantly have ATC audio playing in the background. Don't argue with these pros. "LAS: "N1NR, I told you to remain outside the Bravo". He did not declare a fuel emergency, so go east over Lake Meade, or go west over Red Rocks and stay out of B and get to HND without any issues. You'd be surprised how many Pilots act like they are the only plane an ATC is working even tho she is nonstop talking sequencing Arrivals to one of the top 5 busiest airports in the USA!!! Get Alerts. Yeah, this whole sick daughter thing sounds like so much after action excuse making. I'd like to know more about the outcome. ATC either turns him around or gives him a better heading. Hey not fair to say that to PIA. Hundreds could have died. However, the penalties for pilot deviation can be quite severe, which is something that you should be aware of. This is why the notion of sport and private pilot licenses are a bunch of BS. no no, Im saying the process in place is unnecessary - this phone call is more like a call to an upset friend than what is supposed to a dispassionate, factual entity (ATC, FAA). I fly in the busy Chicago airspace as a private pilot and the vast majority of Private pilots are as professional as the air transport pilots, and are often much less complacent in and around the class B and class C airspace. Penalties, possibly, but he claesrlrx requested class B and was blown off "Nobody gives a f*. Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by WWFeldman, Oct 29, 2020. Me - knowing said student thought oh ##@@. I'm not at liberty to discuss the matter further, but the safety of passengers and crew are paramount. All I do is shake my head and smile. That award goes to the pilot of PK8303 who ignored multiple warnings about how he was too high and fast, and then tried to land with gear up before killing almost everyone on board. Or the one over Cerritos in 1986?". The wheels of justice grind slowly but they do grind - Ken White (a lawyer and a good one). Undiagnosed tumors and the like can lead to emotional regulation problems and impaired judgement. When you have 2 F-16s or 2 F-15s escorting you that should bring sense into your head faster than having the nerve to argue. Oh my gosh! https://onemileatatime.com/atc-audio-negligent-pilot/. The second LAS TRACON told him to exit Bravo he should have done the max-bank 180 his aircraft and his passenger(s) and he is comfortable with and exited Bravo. Is there an issue? There are "occupations" of the Seattle State Assembly. Review: EgyptAir Lounge Cairo Airport (CAI). I was a center controller and am now retired. Another pilot chimes in with his thoughts. To do this, they will use the Brasher Notification Phraseology. Good luck. She was released later on. Airborne deviations can result when pilots stray from an assigned, heading, altitude, or instrument procedure, or if they penetrate controlled or restricted airspace without ATC clearance. What would the discussion be today if there had been a midair collision like the one in San Diego in 1979 with the PSA 727 and a Cessna? Privacy Policy. He flew into the Bravo airspace without a clearance, argued with the controller when she repeatedly told him to exit the Bravo, and continued his flight through as if he owned the airspace. This was a blatant disregard of regulations after being told to exit the Class B. At the point you're referring to he was a FREAKING IDIOT who SHOULD LOSE HIS CERT violating airspace. However, if you are unaware that you have made a mistake, or you have purposely broken the rules, then it is likely that you will have to take part in further testing or remedial training. As a pilot, pilot deviation is something that you should avoid at all costs when possible, but what does it mean? Reminds me of center frequencies ignoring calls from VFR aircraft. The ATC has so many things going on- for him to argue and therefore take her attention away from all the "balls in the air" she is dealing with, the punishment should be more than losing his license, he should be charged with attempted manslaughter or something. VFR altitude adjustable to an incorrect barometric pressure of 200'. From: twitter.com/journo_anon Public Records Requester, Subject: Freedom of Information Act Request: FAA records for N731NR. Whether medical or not, whether deserving of sympathy or not, I hope this guy loses his license. Flightaware shows he flew in from denver at 16300' level the whole way. He responded rogerrrrrrrrrr. Second in a high traffic area like near an airport multiple pilots can be on the same channel, it is a way to identify the pilot speaking as one pilot may sound like another. I looked back over it, and finally saw the one you mentioned, somehow missed it before. The controller continues to direct other traffic including warning other planes in the area that N1NR is there and approximately where it is so that they do not collide with it as it has still not left Bravo. Assuming N1NR requested clearance, in standard aviation communications, there is a clear protocol. I was the 16yo kid working the desk when his #2 instructor sent a private student off on his long cross country and controlled airspace solo flight he went to lunch. I've been given instructions that I don't agree with. And in any case, if the ATC says you need to get out of the airspace, you do it. Harrison Ford is an accomplished pilot that made the same sort of mistake that many Commercial ATP pilots have made setting up for the wrong runway or taxiway etc. Sometimes pilots make a mistake and wrongly enter this zone which is deemed a violation. He responds that he's been "talking to her the whole time." Ive dealt the entering class B many times. The call taker should stick to the facts and avoid all emotionality, etc. About 45 minutes after the student left my phone rings "N731NR (whining): "I'm inside"LAS: "You were not given a clearance through the Bravo.